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Author Topic: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out  (Read 10816 times)

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SeanF

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Hi all,

I hope someone can help and point me in the right direction. I am currently building a cab using a Blast city and having problems getting CRT Emudriver / Groovymame / VMMmaker etc working all together.

My setup
Win 7 64bit, i3 6100 skylake, 8gig ram, H110m-S2h gigabyte motherboard
Sapphire Raddeon HD7950 with Atom 15 bios completed and CRT Emudriver installed and working outputting via the Dvi-I port on a vga cable
Blast city cab with Toshiba tri-sync monitor I believe - with vga connector
J - Pac

What I have done so far:

Got windows running fine using the HD7950 output via DVI-I VGA and CRT Eumdriver installed

groovymame 0.180 in the mame directory and have run groovymame.exe -cc via the command line to do the ini file

Run VMMaker 2.0, chose Arcade 15khz, unchecked extended desktop, then pointed to groovymame.exe, ticked generate mame.xml then generated mode lines...it discovered 1200 I then chose install - it was successful (installing around 120 modes)

I then opened ArcadeOSD and chose 640x480 60i 15khz mode...my vga monitor went off, I unplugged the cable and plugged into my Jpac....the screen came on....whoop!

I opened groovymame (not command line) and picked the first game in my list 88 games to test....the screen then scrambled......I pressed es, unplugged the vga from the Jpac and plugged in my vga monitor....back to square one....

I then set my desktop to 640x480 and plugged the VGA directly into the monitor (without the Jpac) and the desktop appeared......however when I run a game..same scrambled images

I have tried in VMMaker under monitor choosing Arcade 15/25/31 but still the same....

Really struggling to get my head round this....and I have spent two days on it.

Any help would be appreciated - Ive googled and read all the guides but nothing...

It's obvious that the monitor is working and can accept signal either via the Jpac or direct into the vga so I must be doing something wrong software wise

Thanks
Sean

krick

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2019, 12:49:05 pm »
What (exact) version of CRT Emudriver are you using?
http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

Why are you using GroovyMAME 0.180 from 2016?  I doubt anyone will be able to help you with that version.  You should be using the latest 0.206 GroovyMAME.

Why did you install ATOM 15 if you have a tri-sync monitor?
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GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
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Calamity

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2019, 01:08:36 pm »
Why are you using GroovyMAME 0.180 from 2016?  I doubt anyone will be able to help you with that version.  You should be using the latest 0.206 GroovyMAME.

Yes, it sounds like it's an issue with that old GM version not applying the correct sync polarities for newer AMD drivers.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

SeanF

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2019, 03:13:40 pm »
Hi,

Im using

CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 15 (Catalyst 12.6) for Windows 7/8/10 64-bits for HD7XXX cards

and to be honest I only have the 0.180 Mame romset so didn't know how to make this work with newer versions....

As for Atom15....I flash my card but didn't realise I had the trisync with vga port and it doesn't work anyway due to UEFI bios on the motherboard...doh

If I change to a newer version of groovymame what do I need to do with the rom set to make it work? and should I just plug straight in or use the JPAC?

sorry but confused
Sean

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 03:38:39 am »
Hi,

Im using

CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 15 (Catalyst 12.6) for Windows 7/8/10 64-bits for HD7XXX cards

and to be honest I only have the 0.180 Mame romset so didn't know how to make this work with newer versions....

As for Atom15....I flash my card but didn't realise I had the trisync with vga port and it doesn't work anyway due to UEFI bios on the motherboard...doh

If I change to a newer version of groovymame what do I need to do with the rom set to make it work? and should I just plug straight in or use the JPAC?

sorry but confused
Sean

First of all, you shouldn't be using 12.6 for your card, you should be using at least the 16.2.1-GCN version or even better the latest 18.5.1-GCN version. That 12.6 one is only provided for compatibility with legacy cards.

Then, as explained, your issue is most likely due to wrong sync polarities caused by a version mismatch (modern CRT Tools mixed with ancient GM). To avoid problems, you should always use the newest versions of both.

Some of your roms will work, some won't, you'll need to update your romset.

If your monitor has a direct VGA input you can use that instead of the JPAC, that's up to you.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

SeanF

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2019, 03:26:56 pm »
Thanks all - I am sorting the romset and will get the software correct...thanks for the pointers.....fingers crossed everything lines up!

Calamity

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2019, 03:31:48 pm »
Before dealing with the romset issue, you should confirm the new versions of GM + CRT Emudrivers work well. Probably 50% of your roms will still work, so you don't need to download a full romset just to make this test.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

SeanF

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2019, 05:15:31 pm »
Thanks all - finally working!.....looking good just a couple of issues to sort I think. I tried several roms as suggested and most work perfectly i.e. fit the screen, res etc....

Just a couple that don't appear to pick the correct resolution - can't see anything in the forum on it..

I have my screen horizontal and say Pacman appears squashed and isn't filling the screen vertically....

Pacman is 288 x 244 (V) 60hz

and Switchres is choosing 2560 x 320p 60hz 24.9Khz

Any pointers?

Thanks again
Sean

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2019, 06:43:53 pm »
Post a log file.  See Calamity's signature. I
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 02:34:03 am »
Hi Thanks Krick / Calamity again.

Find attached 3 examples, Pacman (Squashed), Commando (Stretched off screen top and bottom), Galaga (Squashed)....commando look ok scanlines etc but galaga and pacman look like they are on an lcd

Attachments of log files for guidance
Sean

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 04:08:59 am »
First you need to accept that you are NOT going to find a decent solution to run vertical games on your horizontal monitor. Everything is going to be a compromise so you'll be forced to choose between bad and worse. That said, GM is trying to benefit from the multisync capabilities of your monitor in order to show all games using integer scaling and correct refresh. For 288 lines that's only possible in the 25 kHz range. By choosing 320p, GM is assuming that you're willing to adjust v-size pot to remove the borders if required. However, you can tweak your ranges in order to tell GM that this particular compromise is not acceptable. You can do it this way (in mame.ini):


        crt_range0 15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576
        crt_range1 24960-24960, 49.50-65.00, 0.800, 4.000, 3.200, 0.080, 0.200, 1.000, 0, 0, 384, 400, 768, 800
        crt_range2 31400-31500, 49.50-65.00, 0.940, 3.770, 1.890, 0.349, 0.064, 1.017, 0, 0, 448, 480, 0, 0


This will force 288p into the first range. Now you'll notice Pacman/Galaga will be in progressive mode, but will show the same issue you're seeing with Commando (vertical overscan).

Again, GM is assuming you're going to correct the overscan by means of the v-size potentiometer. If you don't want to do that either, then you need to tell GM about that, by forbidding 256p up to 288p. You can do it this way:

        crt_range0 15625-16200, 49.50-65.00, 2.000, 4.700, 8.000, 0.064, 0.192, 1.024, 0, 0, 192, 248, 448, 496
        crt_range1 24960-24960, 49.50-65.00, 0.800, 4.000, 3.200, 0.080, 0.200, 1.000, 0, 0, 384, 400, 768, 800
        crt_range2 31400-31500, 49.50-65.00, 0.940, 3.770, 1.890, 0.349, 0.064, 1.017, 0, 0, 448, 480, 0, 0

This will force anything above 248p to pass through the upper ranges (25/31kHz) and apply fractional scaling, possibly interlaced too depending on the case, but will most likely achieve the correct refresh. It won't look authentic but it'll be playable.

So basically it's up to you. I can't know beforehand what users are going to prefer, that's why GM is flexible enough to do whatever you need, it's not a hardwired design, if you take the time to understand how it works.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 04:11:21 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

SeanF

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2019, 05:43:44 pm »
Thanks for your help on this Calamity - worked perfectly thanks - easier to go with the 2nd option so the kids don't have to keep messing with the vpot..

Now to sort out a bit of convergence!.....

Thanks again,
Sean

p.s.do you have a donation page?

krick

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2019, 07:51:46 pm »
Another option is to "permanently" adjust the vpot so that horizontal games like Street Fighter 2 are slightly squished and vertical games like Pac Man fit entirely on the screen.  Personally, I think that's preferable to using higher res modes with fractional scaling and/or interlacing.

That is what I do on my arcade monitor (which only supports 15KHz).

Depending on how handy you are and assuming your monitor has an analog pot, I think you could also wire up a switch with a resistor (or resistors for a multi-position switch) in place of the pot that would allow you to toggle between several vertical height "presets".  You'd have to experiment and find the correct resistor values to get the desired results.  Depending on how your vpot is connected (mine is on a remote pcb on a cable) you might be able to set the pot, lift one of the legs, and measure the actual resistance with a meter to find the needed resistor value(s).

Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 08:33:18 pm »
p.s.do you have a donation page?

Calamity does not provide or encourage paid support for crt_emudriver or GM. That said, if you think his work is awesome and wish to donate for your own reasons...

http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=36

:D

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2019, 12:14:02 pm »
I use GM with a tri-sync CRT arcade monitor. Getting vertical games to look good without turning the screen is one of the few things I haven't been able to fix yet.

GM can display vertical games on my monitor at the exact resolution (but in 24khz instead of 15khz) but... it seems to have issues maintaining the aspect ratio.

I am guessing that it is due to non-square pixels on the CRT. A 384 x 224 image comes out as a thin vertical strip. I.e. Instead of maintaining a 3:4 ratio, it looks more like 1:4. There is more border (at the sides) than screen.

So, my lazy ass needs to turn one of my monitors on it's side at some point...


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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2019, 12:48:05 pm »
I use GM with a tri-sync CRT arcade monitor. Getting vertical games to look good without turning the screen is one of the few things I haven't been able to fix yet.

GM can display vertical games on my monitor at the exact resolution (but in 24khz instead of 15khz) but... it seems to have issues maintaining the aspect ratio.

I am guessing that it is due to non-square pixels on the CRT. A 384 x 224 image comes out as a thin vertical strip. I.e. Instead of maintaining a 3:4 ratio, it looks more like 1:4. There is more border (at the sides) than screen.

So, my lazy ass needs to turn one of my monitors on it's side at some point...

That wasn't like that back when I had my Polostar. I clearly remember playing Mazinger on it and it looked great at 24 kHz. I'd appreciate that when you drop such statements you also provided a log showing the issue.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2019, 05:29:29 pm »
I.e. Instead of maintaining a 3:4 ratio, it looks more like 1:4. There is more border (at the sides) than screen.

Log first, as Calamity requests. There's instructions for generating one in his signature.

Next, have you tried simply telling mame what aspect ratio you want? As in, going into mame.ini and setting aspect to 3:4 or whatever way around the vertical titles will want.

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2019, 10:39:20 pm »
Is there an echo in here...

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2019, 01:22:47 pm »
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 01:24:52 pm by krick »
Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2019, 07:59:38 pm »
Is there an echo in here...

I take it from your post that simply setting the aspect ratio in mame.ini did not work. If your previous logs cover the same issue, you need to indicate that because not all of us read minds ;)

Otherwise, click the video.

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2019, 09:21:55 pm »
I use GM with a tri-sync CRT arcade monitor. Getting vertical games to look good without turning the screen is one of the few things I haven't been able to fix yet.

GM can display vertical games on my monitor at the exact resolution (but in 24khz instead of 15khz) but... it seems to have issues maintaining the aspect ratio.

I am guessing that it is due to non-square pixels on the CRT. A 384 x 224 image comes out as a thin vertical strip. I.e. Instead of maintaining a 3:4 ratio, it looks more like 1:4. There is more border (at the sides) than screen.



So, my lazy ass needs to turn one of my monitors on it's side at some point...

That wasn't like that back when I had my Polostar. I clearly remember playing Mazinger on it and it looked great at 24 kHz. I'd appreciate that when you drop such statements you also provided a log showing the issue.

This is what a vertical game looks like on mine when run in horizontal mode (in 24khz):




Not a great pic because I had to use a flash or the edge of the screen just came out too dark to see. That is with the H size pot set to max. If I leave the screen width the same as what I use for horizontal games then it is even narrower. When stretched to full I get a little over 1/3 of the screen width for the image. It is a lot worse if I select pixel aspect instead of 4:3.

I don't know why it comes out better on your tri-sync but this is how it is on my Billabs 25" and my 29" Makvision.

The pc I use for Mame is not hooked up to the internet. The wifi doesn't reach my basement so no logs. I am not asking for any specific help the issue though as I plan to vertically mount one of my monitors at some point.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:25:05 pm by Zebra »

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2019, 11:58:17 pm »
The pc I use for Mame is not hooked up to the internet. The wifi doesn't reach my basement so no logs. I am not asking for any specific help the issue though as I plan to vertically mount one of my monitors at some point.

FYI, the log would be created locally, you could use a USB stick to transfer it. No requirement for internet on the cab.

I now understand you were not seeking help, and apologise for jumping down your throat :)

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2019, 05:28:54 am »
I don't know why it comes out better on your tri-sync but this is how it is on my Billabs 25" and my 29" Makvision.

The pc I use for Mame is not hooked up to the internet. The wifi doesn't reach my basement so no logs. I am not asking for any specific help the issue though as I plan to vertically mount one of my monitors at some point.

Hi Zebra,

Whether you're asking for help or not, you're launching a failure report on me, and it hurts like a stab in my heart. For me it's like you are bad-mouthing my kid and not willing to show the evidence. Your failure report is not a random one, it is one that hurts specially because it questions GM's ability to do what it is supposed to do best and what nothing else can do properly. I don't intend you guys to undestand my psychology but please realize I don't ask for logs just because I'm a moronic nerd, I do it because I feel insulted otherwise.

 :D

That said. The option to try, in case you hadn't try yet, is -aspect 4:3 (not aspect 3:4, as was suggested). This will fix any potential issue caused by a desktop resolution that's not exactly 4:3.

And please consider the usb pendrive route  :D (now it's when you say you post from your phone and then I go for my bottle of vodka).
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 05:31:38 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2019, 08:56:39 am »
Whether you're asking for help or not, you're launching a failure report on me, and it hurts like a stab in my heart. For me it's like you are bad-mouthing my kid and not willing to show the evidence. Your failure report is not a random one, it is one that hurts specially because it questions GM's ability to do what it is supposed to do best and what nothing else can do properly. I don't intend you guys to undestand my psychology but please realize I don't ask for logs just because I'm a moronic nerd, I do it because I feel insulted otherwise.

I think anyone whose ever written any kind of software can sympathize with this feeling.

Zebra

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2019, 02:55:44 pm »
I don't know why it comes out better on your tri-sync but this is how it is on my Billabs 25" and my 29" Makvision.

The pc I use for Mame is not hooked up to the internet. The wifi doesn't reach my basement so no logs. I am not asking for any specific help the issue though as I plan to vertically mount one of my monitors at some point.

Hi Zebra,

Whether you're asking for help or not, you're launching a failure report on me, and it hurts like a stab in my heart. For me it's like you are bad-mouthing my kid and not willing to show the evidence. Your failure report is not a random one, it is one that hurts specially because it questions GM's ability to do what it is supposed to do best and what nothing else can do properly. I don't intend you guys to undestand my psychology but please realize I don't ask for logs just because I'm a moronic nerd, I do it because I feel insulted otherwise.

 :D

That said. The option to try, in case you hadn't try yet, is -aspect 4:3 (not aspect 3:4, as was suggested). This will fix any potential issue caused by a desktop resolution that's not exactly 4:3.

And please consider the usb pendrive route  :D (now it's when you say you post from your phone and then I go for my bottle of vodka).


You are being too sensative. I am not criticizing Groovy mame or launching any failiure report. I just said it was something I hadn't figured out yet. I love Groovy mame and I'm greatful for it's existence. To me, it solves far more problems than it creates. Nothing is perfect though. Not even Groovy mame.

My thought is that, in this case, the issue is related to the super resolution. My monitor doesn't seem to like them in EGA mode. I have a lot of different but related issues when I try and play the model 2 emulator in EGA too. Both Groovymame and model 2 work fine in CGA and VGA. Groovy mame works very well in EGA for horizontal games.

Once I set up a vertical monitor next to my horizontal one, everything should work well.

Btw, I already tried changing the aspect. 4:3, 3:4, pixel aspect, I still get the issue with varying severity.




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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2019, 03:39:54 pm »
To me, it solves far more problems than it creates.

That's conforting mate  :lol
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead of pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Help with CRT Emudriver / GroovyMame and monitor....tearing my hair out
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2019, 02:54:26 pm »
To me, it solves far more problems than it creates.

That's conforting mate  :lol

Um... happy to help.

If it was up to me, you'd be running the whole mame project. While I like where Groovymame is going, I certainly do not feel the same way about mame main.

Groovymame is about making mame look the best it could for users to enjoy in a user friendly manner. Before Groovymame, I used to spend more time messing with settings than I did playing and I never got it how I wanted. Now, for the most part, I just put it on an play.

The underlying mame program seems to get less user friendly with every new version. Most of the time it is hard to spot any decernable benefit from the hassle caused by updating. Currently, I only have access to Mame 198 roms and I struggle to get half of them to work with mame 198...

So, IMO, the best way to improve the user experience for Mame and Groovymame would be to add a "find last compatible version" option. So instead of giving a list of obscure missing files when you try to load a rom, it finds you the last version of mame it could work with instead, and... runs it...

Even if you had to put every previous version of mame in a folder, the memory used would be minuscule.