Author Topic: Gil's Robotron Build (Read 41509 times)

Gilrock · « **on:** February 12, 2019, 07:29:40 pm »

After I recently got back into working on my Mame Cabinet and following the forum I was looking at the high score competition they do here. That led me to look at the older ones and I stumbled on the Robotron competition from a year ago and I was like holy cow I didn't even know those scores were possible. I started playing it again and I've now logged 18+ hours on the game. I decided Robotron is definitely one of my favorite games so I wanted to build a cabinet dedicated to Robotron but I'll make the control panel removeable so I can also make a Defender or other games panel down the road. I've ordered several items to get started including a JROK SYSFPGA Williams card, Robotron control panel artwork and marquee. I've ordered 4" Wico joysticks from Arcade shop. Also my first item arrived today...a screen printed glass bezel.

Gilrock · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2019, 07:54:13 pm »

So these are some of the photos I've been looking at trying to decide shape and color scheme. For all I know these might be from someone here. I kinda like the way it curves under the control panel in the first 2 photos and I'm undecided on color scheme. I really like the black/red look of the middle photo. I find so many photos when searching I'm not sure which ones are original cabinets or clones like I'm making.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2019, 06:51:06 pm »

I believe in the US, the one on the Right is how it showed up in our Arcades.. All the best with your project, I completely understand where your coming from. I just built myself a Pedestal with the Jrok board in it.. Like just got the custom marquee today, still waiting on the custom control panel overlay..

- Zeosstud
Rodney Butler

Gilrock · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2019, 08:40:24 pm »

I'm going to go with the Robotron-1 version as shown in this link:

Gilrock · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2019, 10:15:34 am »

Some more toys arrived. Last night I cut out a piece of ABS for a mounting plate and grabbed a 5V Meanwell power supply I had lying around. Seems like overkill to use a power supply capable of 60 amps for a board that only needs 400 mA but I had a box of 12 supplies I've accumulated for the Christmas light show I run. I also got the control panel artwork and marquee and Wico style joysticks along with several other odds and ends.

Mike A · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2019, 10:22:13 am »

Robotron is a game I want to own someday. I will be watching to see how this one turns out.

Gilrock · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2019, 02:50:34 pm »

Well the board works. I temporary hooked up a joystick and 2 buttons to get through the Setup Menu. I mentioned this in my other cabinet build thread but I had bought a Vision Pro 19" LCD because ArcadeShop listed it as what is used as a replacement in old arcades. So it was already on order when I started reading that I really should use a CRT. So I've got the LCD working but I'll be trying to find either an arcade CRT or a good TV to use. I got a 20" Magnavox TV but it only has composite so I've been told I really would need to modify it to accept RGBS. After I got the LCD working I switched over to trying out the JROK RGB to NTSC encoder with its composite output but I'm getting nothing but some unregcognizable flickering on the TV. I know the TV input works with my Nintendo64. When I first got the LCD working I could not get the scanline emulation setting to work then I finally noticed the VGA jumper on the board. I only mention it to point out I did not have the jumper in VGA mode when trying to get the TV working I just moved it to VGA mode when I switched back to the LCD.

opt2not · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2019, 03:16:16 pm »

Nice, a Robotron build!

Great choice on the JROK board. I've installed one in my original cab, and it's been solid for years now.

Too bad about the LCD, but since you already had it on order might as well use it. You just might not get the quick response of a CRT, something that Robotron really needs, but it'll get you by.

As for painting, the black/red one you've mentioned is actually the Euro version of Robotron, while the other two I believe were state-side. The lighter gray (it's actually pewter) is the more common cabinet, and is also the same for the cabaret/mini version (that's the cabinet I own).

Looking forward to your progress on this one. Robotron is one of the greatest games ever made!

Gilrock · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2019, 03:42:53 pm »

Thanks opt2not I've looked over the thread where you restored that cabinet and I saw your comment about the black/red scheme. I almost decided on it but I think I'm going with the lighter grey. I agree its one of the greatest games. Seeing your high score when I looked at the old thread from last year is what prompted me to spend more time trying to get better. Are there sign-ups for your Robotron training at ZapCon? LOL....I hear there's a line.

Gilrock · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2019, 03:46:55 pm »

Ok I pulled out the voltmeter and checked continuity and my sync line was open. The encoder board came with these super tiny wires that break easy. So I got the TV working but its not that great. I know its only composite but the Nintendo64 seemed to be looking a little nicer plus the image seemed aligned on the Nintendo whereas this one is off the screen a bit and I don't have a remote to access any adjustments.

opt2not · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2019, 03:50:19 pm »

Hehe, yeah man, I'll show you some moves at Zapcon this year.

Last year they had an original and a repro cabinet on the floor. I didn't play much of the repro cab because it didn't feel as sturdy as the original. Perhaps a combination of non-original controls, and the type of wood they used for the cab.
I'm trying to get Yots to pitch a Robotron competition this year. Last year there were Galaga and Cyberball tourneys (I entered the Cyberball one, but didn't do Galaga). Robotron would be a fun one, especially if it's set for tourney settings -- 5 lives, no extras, level 10 difficulty.

Gilrock · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2019, 04:14:49 pm »

Yeah well I'm still at only 238,000 for my high score since I started playing again a few weeks ago. One of the biggest things that gets me is trying to handle the shots from the Brains. And the tank wave can go really bad...sometimes I breeze through it then other times I lose all my guys. I need to see if I can find an original cab somewhere near me so I can rediscover how the joysticks feel. The Wico joysticks I got from Arcadeshop feel really stiff but of course I don't have them mounted in a panel yet. I also want to see how much they are supposed to stick up through the panel. I ordered the metal blank for a control panel but not sure if I'm going to use it on this cab or just get measurements from it to make one out of wood.

nexusmtz · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2019, 10:28:24 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on February 15, 2019, 03:50:19 pm

tourney settings -- 5 lives, no extras, level 10 difficulty.

Tried that. I think I lasted longer on prom night. I'll have to see that demo if I make it out this year.

Gilrock · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2019, 11:25:00 am »

I got part of the cabinet designed in SketchUp yesterday. I found build plans at classicarcadecabinets.com but it listed the accuracy at 88%. I also tried importing a cabinet from the SketchUp Warehouse but there were parts of it that didn't look correct like the control panel was parallel to the floor. So I ended up placing an image of the Robotron-1 cabinet profile image into SketchUp and I matched it's height to the cabinet that I had imported. Then I traced the shape and extruded into a 3/4" piece. After my parts arrived I measured the dimensions to try to figure out the width I needed to use. The control panel blank = 24 5/16", Marquee = 24 11/32", Bezel = 24 1/4". So I'm still trying to decide what the internal width should be. I'm not sure how much tolerance I should leave and whether the glass bezel needs plastic trim on the sides. I have some leftover trim from the pinball project and it measures about 3/64" thick so putting it on each side adds 3/32". So if I went with 24 3/8" and used trim on the bezel it would only leave like 1/64" spare on each side to slide those parts in between the panel sides and 1/32" spare on each side for the control panel. That just seems cutting it kinda tight so I'm curious what you other builders do when deciding something like that.

Gilrock · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2019, 08:04:06 pm »

I've been searching all over finding photos that show how these things were built. I ran across this speaker panel image. I can't seem to find where I could buy a trim piece to hold the marquee like that. It gives it a nice look since you can screw it to the wood on that lip.

Gilrock · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2019, 08:39:38 pm »

I finished enough of the SketchUp design I can start doing some cutting. I ended up buying a used 19" Wells Gardner arcade monitor so I'll wait till that gets here to make sure it fits. So I'll start on the control panel first. I'll share the SketchUp design file once I finalize everything.

Arroyo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2019, 11:34:00 pm »

Always one of my favorite cabs. Great choice on the sides, and nice SketchUp work!

Gilrock · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2019, 11:48:08 pm »

Quote from: Arroyo on February 17, 2019, 11:34:00 pm

Always one of my favorite cabs. Great choice on the sides, and nice SketchUp work!

Thanks....I think it took me an hour to figure out how to project the material onto the control panel's curved surface...

Arroyo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2019, 11:49:42 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 17, 2019, 11:48:08 pm

Quote from: Arroyo on February 17, 2019, 11:34:00 pm
Always one of my favorite cabs. Great choice on the sides, and nice SketchUp work!

Thanks....I think it took me an hour to figure out how to project the material onto the control panel's curved surface...

I remember scratching my head on that one for quite awhile as well. Nice work.

Gilrock · « **Reply #19 on:** February 18, 2019, 12:10:18 am »

Got the top piece of the control panel designed and cut tonight.

Gilrock · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2019, 11:42:56 pm »

Took me the entire afternoon/evening to make these metal plates. I don't have anything that can precisely cut metal so these were made by hand with a jigsaw, drill press, and belt sander. At first I tried to cut the center hole with a jigsaw and realized that was going to look terrible. So I googled for ways to cut a hole in thin metal and found a guy cutting a hole in 1/4" steel using a normal hole saw. The key was keeping it lubricated when it begins to smoke. So I ran to the store and found a Milwaukee hole saw with a thin wall and I used machine oil to keep it cool and it cut the holes out really nice. The other thing I messed up on the first attempt were the 4 holes. I marked lines with calipers and punched marks but it didn't quite line up good. So this time I went back into Aspire and design a couple jigs. The jig on the right was used to put the plate in the pocket and flip it over and drill the holes. Then the one on the left with the hole I used to attach the plate and then round the corners with the belt sander. Then I just had to countersink the holes. The pockets were cut with a CNC and still there were a couple edges where I could feel the metal lip. I've had to spend time trying to thin the metal plates on a couple of the edges. I assume it needs to be pretty close to perfect flat to not show through the overlay.

Laythe · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2019, 03:11:10 am »

Looking good!

You can do almost all metalwork with a file and infinite patience, but a hole saw and a belt sander drops the required patience factor down to something more plausibly realistic. I love to see people just diving in and doing it with what they've got, instead of thinking that it can't be done because they don't have a full machine shop.

(Also, I dig your project.)

Arroyo · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2019, 12:14:23 pm »

Is the circle in the middle for the dust washer?

Man I wish I had a CNC

Gilrock · « **Reply #23 on:** February 20, 2019, 12:30:44 pm »

Quote from: Arroyo on February 20, 2019, 12:14:23 pm

Is the circle in the middle for the dust washer?

Man I wish I had a CNC

Yes. I wouldn't have even known about it but from all my searching that is the way it appeared the original control panel was designed. Yeah I know I'm fortunate to have the CNC. I think I got it for a lame reason like cutting out coro shapes for Christmas decorations but I always wanted one and knew I'd find other uses for it. I used the CNC to make the jigs for helping with the hole alignment and corner rounding. I admire the builders that get those tasks done with less.

jennifer · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2019, 01:47:26 pm »

That project is turning out quite nicely

... A few years back I sold all my vintage equipment and downsized into a tiny little home shop, It's not real easy to be creative with less.

opt2not · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2019, 02:44:37 pm »

Excellent work so far. That metal plating turned out great!

Gilrock · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2019, 06:51:42 pm »

Well now I got an error to fix. Luckily it just a little bit of plywood with not anything too critical invested into it except the time to create a 14 degree miter joint. I went to glue the top piece to the 2 bottom parts I had glued together and I'm like how the heck are they that far off I cut the darn things with the CNC. Then it hit me the same thing had happened with the jig I had cut and these were done before that. Instead of just cutting these simple rectangles on the table saw I said I'll get fancy and let the CNC cut them. Well when I jumped into the design tool, dropped down a couple rectangles and created the toolpath I didn't notice it was still on an 1/8" end mill bit that I had used last for a small hole instead of a 1/4" end mill. So the toolpath I created expected an 1/8" bit in the CNC and I was using a 1/4" bit so the board ended up a 1/4" short. Well back to the store for another small piece of plywood.

Gilrock · « **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2019, 08:40:40 am »

Well no new photos to post yet. I got the boards cut again properly and the control panel is glued together. I started rounding over the corners for a curve. It was difficult trying to route the miter joint with the boards held at an angle so the joints have some small gaps. I know the joints are strong though because I tried to break the one apart I had glued yesterday that turned out too short and I literally stood on top and jumped and it wouldn't budge. Had to grab a maul to break the joint. So where I rounded the curves into the panel there are some thin gaps I need to fill and sand down. In some spots there is no gap and other spots its so thin I'm not sure I can squeeze filler in there so I'm thinking it might be better to go ahead and just run a groove through there with the table saw so that the filler is thick enough to hold. Seems like I see people using bondo for this. I've never used it before so gotta track down where to get it and try it out. I thought that was mainly auto body repair stuff.

Gilrock · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2019, 11:40:53 pm »

Got the control panel almost ready to be wired up.

This is before I put a coat of paint on it. Mainly just to make it black since anything visible is going to be covered by the overlay.

A few things I would do different so you can learn from my mistakes. Don't try to make the holes too close to the exact size....even a CNC can be off a mm depending on bit wear etc. I tried to cut it too tight and the button holes were about 1.5mm too small. Second error is forgetting to test fit the buttons before putting on the overlay. To fix the button this works nicely. Grab a scrap piece of wood and drill your hole in it. I like to use a Forstner style bit for this. Then secure the template hole in place and use it as a guide to widen the hole.

I installed the joysticks and buttons to see how it looks. I'm happy with it.

Ond · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2019, 12:46:52 am »

I love the crisp look of that artwork! You've got some serious skills man, hand forging those steel plates? Slick!

bperkins01 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2019, 09:02:59 am »

Great work! I'm going to the top to re-read slowly.. I got caught up looking at the pictures

Mike A · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2019, 09:29:17 am »

Nice.

Gilrock · « **Reply #32 on:** February 24, 2019, 02:08:03 pm »

Quote from: Ond on February 23, 2019, 12:46:52 am

I love the crisp look of that artwork! You've got some serious skills man, hand forging those steel plates? Slick!

Yeah I didn't use my artwork when I was buying stuff from ArcadeShop I noticed they sold the Robotron overlay so I got the one I believe they sell for real cabinet restores. It was really a pain aligning it though because it was already cut to the exact size.

Gilrock · « **Reply #33 on:** February 25, 2019, 09:35:19 pm »

I acquired a Wells Gardner K7000 CRT for this build. It arrived this afternoon and it appears I guessed all the wiring correctly. I notice when there is a lot of dark background it seems to have a bit of a venetian blind effect with maybe a green tint. I haven't tried to adjust anything cause HORZ/VERT position and size are about all I know currently.

opt2not · « **Reply #34 on:** February 25, 2019, 11:22:23 pm »

Man, you are doing this build right!

Love the K7000’s. Next to the G07’s, this monitor is very serviceable. The colour looks like a purity issue in the title screen shot. The lower right seems off to me.
Could use a degauss, but if the monitor’s degauss isn’t working well enough, a degaussing wand might do the trick. Or you can try adjusting the purity rings.
As for the bleeding greens, you might want to adjust the R G B balance pots on the neck board.
Other than that, wouldn’t hurt to throw some new caps on the chassis.

Gilrock · « **Reply #35 on:** February 25, 2019, 11:48:59 pm »

Yeah I noticed the bottom right corner after I posted and ran the color screen test and it had blue all over the red. I messaged the guy I bought it from and got some tips. Degaussing was one thing but he noticed I had it on the pinball machine. I moved the monitor to the floor and 80% of the blue went away and now its just a bit in the corner. I ordered a degaussing coil already. If the monitor had it built in I didn't know it because I googled for degaussing a K7000 and the first video I watched he used a coil so I bought one...lol. The ebay ad said the "chassis is rebuilt" so I didn't know if that meant it was recapped or just something physical was rebuilt. It looks really clean and in good shape.

opt2not · « **Reply #36 on:** February 26, 2019, 12:27:30 am »

Yeah one of the monitor gurus here can probably explain it better, but from my knowledge that black wiring going around the back of the tube that looks like it’s wrapped in electrical tape is the deguasser. Normally the monitor deguasses automatically from a cold startup (at least 20 mins turned off), but sometimes you need a more powerful degaussing tool to get the job done. Magnetic interference from the pinball table might have been it but I’d let it sit on the floor away from magnetic fields for 20+ minutes then try the power again and see if it clears up.
A rebuilt chassis probably means the seller most likely replaced the caps. Could be a combination of things replaced, but caps are usually part of the rebuild servicing.

I’ve got a k7000 sitting in the garage waiting for my next project. I should try to get it as clean as yours!

Gilrock · « **Reply #37 on:** February 26, 2019, 09:10:03 am »

I really want to play a real Robotron to see how the joysticks feel but it might not be till ZapCon. But even then a real cab might have joysticks that are more worn in. I temporarily wired up my control panel and played with it sitting in my lap which isn't optimal but the Wico Joysticks from ArcadeShop are feeling really stiff. And it seems like you barely move them to activate the leaf switches which maybe will turn out to be what you want for quick response. I've just gotten so used to the loose ServoStik feel its going to take some getting used to. Its cool to see it all working and now I'm really motivated to get the rest of the cab built to put it all in.

Gilrock · « **Reply #38 on:** February 26, 2019, 12:09:22 pm »

I asked the seller and he says this monitor has new caps and a new flyback transformer. I'm feeling pretty good about getting it now especially since I got an unexpected delivery of donation money last night from the lighting project I help develop that more than pays for this entire cabinet. Now the wife is feeling better about all the stuff she's seen showing up at the door...lol.

8BitMonk · « **Reply #39 on:** February 26, 2019, 06:15:37 pm »

Neat to see a scratch build, looking good, nice work!

A degaussing coil should get rid of the color variation in the corner. Whenever you move a monitor, change it's location, direction it faces etc. it can be effected by magnetic fields and discolor portions, a degaussing coil will fix this most of the time. Interestingly, in a pinch, an electric drill will work as well though not as effectively as an official degaussing coil.

After hitting it with the coil you'll want to adjust the focus and brightness on the flyback, those will have the next biggest impact. After that you can look at the convergence and color purity. They seem to be ok from the pics you posted so you probably won't have to mess with them but there are tutorials all over the place online for making those adjustments.

wp34 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 26, 2019, 06:50:23 pm »

Looking great so far! Are you going to stencil the sides?

I've got a similar build planned when the weather breaks here but in cabaret form. Looking forward to following your build.

Gilrock · « **Reply #41 on:** February 26, 2019, 07:23:37 pm »

Yeah I think I'm going to buy the stencils for the sides. They seemed a little high considering you could almost buy side art for the same price but I figure I've got enough into this I might as well do it right.

wp34 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 26, 2019, 07:57:53 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 26, 2019, 07:23:37 pm

Yeah I think I'm going to buy the stencils for the sides. They seemed a little high considering you could almost buy side art for the same price but I figure I've got enough into this I might as well do it right.

Mike A · « **Reply #43 on:** February 27, 2019, 09:27:37 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 26, 2019, 07:23:37 pm

Yeah I think I'm going to buy the stencils for the sides. They seemed a little high considering you could almost buy side art for the same price but I figure I've got enough into this I might as well do it right.

This just keeps getting better.

Gilrock · « **Reply #44 on:** February 27, 2019, 09:44:36 am »

Thanks guys. I'm also going for my 3rd set of joysticks. I bought the Dominux8's from GGG but I haven't even unwrapped them yet. I then saw the Wico's at Arcadeshop and bought those. They feel really stiff but maybe that's how its supposed to be I don't remember. But then yesterday I messaged a guy I saw on KLOV who used to sell restored Robotron joysticks and he said he had enough parts to make me a set and said they should be the best ones I can get. So I'm going to have enough joysticks for a few panels when I'm done...lol.

8BitMonk · « **Reply #45 on:** February 27, 2019, 10:11:36 am »

Original Wico's are the best, they'll feel stiff initially compared to other joysticks but that's how the originals were. Took me awhile to get used to it after playing with the U360's I have on my Mame build. If you're looking for color codes and stencil application check out my Robotron restoration thread.

Gilrock · « **Reply #46 on:** February 27, 2019, 10:17:26 am »

Quote from: 8BitMonk on February 27, 2019, 10:11:36 am

Original Wico's are the best, they'll feel stiff initially compared to other joysticks but that's how the originals were. Took me awhile to get used to it after playing with the U360's I have on my Mame build. If you're looking for color codes and stencil application check out my Robotron restoration thread.

Thanks I'll check it out. The Arcadeshop Wico's are supposed to be like the originals but I've read they have a different lb grommet. The ones I'm getting made for me are supposed to be originals with new grommets. I'll be curious to feel the difference. I've gotten used to playing with the Servostiks which are really loose. I've only gotten 319,000 high score so far and I've been joking I'm expecting these original sticks with CRT to triple my high score...lol.

Gilrock · « **Reply #47 on:** February 27, 2019, 10:21:47 am »

Quote from: 8BitMonk on February 27, 2019, 10:11:36 am

Original Wico's are the best, they'll feel stiff initially compared to other joysticks but that's how the originals were. Took me awhile to get used to it after playing with the U360's I have on my Mame build. If you're looking for color codes and stencil application check out my Robotron restoration thread.

Wow...I just looked at the Robotron competition from a year ago and see you were up there in the "play till you get tired" category.

wp34 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 27, 2019, 10:38:06 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 27, 2019, 09:44:36 am

Thanks guys. I'm also going for my 3rd set of joysticks. I bought the Dominux8's from GGG but I haven't even unwrapped them yet. I then saw the Wico's at Arcadeshop and bought those. They feel really stiff but maybe that's how its supposed to be I don't remember. But then yesterday I messaged a guy I saw on KLOV who used to sell restored Robotron joysticks and he said he had enough parts to make me a set and said they should be the best ones I can get. So I'm going to have enough joysticks for a few panels when I'm done...lol.

I currently play Robotron in my Total Carnage cabinet. For some reason Williams switched from Wicos to a (Happ?) microswitch for the sequel to Smash TV. The joysticks work surprisingly well but Wico is definitely the way to go. You won't be disappointed.

8BitMonk · « **Reply #49 on:** February 27, 2019, 10:38:31 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on February 27, 2019, 10:21:47 am

Wow...I just looked at the Robotron competition from a year ago and see you were up there in the "play till you get tired" category.

I'm a mid-level player at best, I posted a decent score but Opt still kicked my butt.

I don't think either of us could hold a candle to the guys who actually marathon the game, the record takes somewhere in the 48hr range.

I've since switched to playing Tournament settings, 5 men with no extra lives which I really like. The world records on Tournament are ~800k - 1.2 million which I think is achievable with some practice though I've yet to get higher than ~350k.

Records are here: https://www.twingalaxies.com/game/robotron-2084/arcade
Some good Robotron info here: http://www.robotron2084guidebook.com/

Gilrock · « **Reply #50 on:** March 04, 2019, 10:56:36 pm »

Started cutting out several pieces and putting things together.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #51 on:** March 05, 2019, 01:14:32 am »

Looks Fantastic..

opt2not · « **Reply #52 on:** March 05, 2019, 02:38:08 am »

Great progress. Looking forward to seeing the rest!

Gilrock · « **Reply #53 on:** March 07, 2019, 11:12:27 pm »

A little more progress. Got the control panel mounted...it swivels down on a hinge and I have a couple clamps to lock it in place. Then I cut out a piece of wood to fit inside the speaker grill I bought. To create channels for the marquee I couldn't find any good plastic trim so I'm using 2 pieces of angle aluminum on the bottom and 1 piece on top. I'll take that all off and paint it black later. After taking the photos I noticed some adjusting I needed to do to the grill since the board was not seated all the way on one side. Next I need to fit the bezel but I needed to wait for a second pair of hands.

javeryh · « **Reply #54 on:** March 08, 2019, 05:22:51 am »

This build is coming out awesome. It looks perfect and that CP - wow!

Mike A · « **Reply #55 on:** March 08, 2019, 06:23:20 am »

This build makes me happy.

Gilrock · « **Reply #56 on:** March 08, 2019, 08:41:16 am »

Yeah I'm having to kinda wing it when it comes to positioning of all these front items. The control panel artwork had precut holes for where the hinge mounts. I laid the hinge over the holes and thought it all looked good so that's where I drilled and attached it. Then when I went to hold the panel in place I realized the hinge was causing the control panel to be pushed forward about 3/16" more than I had planned. If I had to do it over I would have moved the bottom coin door board back 3/16" and I could have cheated the hinge a little deeper on the control panel. The only real effect was I didn't get as big of a lip where the side panel sticks out past the control panel. It's barely a 1/4" and I was shooting for closer to 1/2". So not a big deal and I'll be happy with how it ended up. And the lip I had sized above and below the marquee seemed to come out a little thinner than I planned. I did have to sand down the top edge of the side panels so maybe I made it 1/8" shorter. My CNC can only cut 4' pieces so I had to get creative to cut the 6' side panels using 2 tiled toolpaths and cut registration marks. It seemed to be aligned perfect but for some reason the 2nd cuts came out a smidge off so I clamped the sides together to sand them even.

I've ordered stencils for the side panels from thisoldgame. I had seen where some folks recommended gamestencils.com but I didn't like not even being able to see their products. The website required an account create before you can even see what they have to offer. Kinda weird I've never seen that before.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #57 on:** March 08, 2019, 11:49:37 pm »

Without question my favorite build going.. says a lot when I also have mine posted..

Looking GREAT!!

Gilrock · « **Reply #58 on:** March 12, 2019, 12:13:45 am »

Got my rebuilt original Wico's in the mail from Andrewb on KLOV. They feel really nice. At least half the stiffness from the ones I got through ArcadeShop. Starting to work on painting the cabinet. Looks like it could be a couple weeks to get that done to my satisfaction. I sprayed on a couple coats of primer and it was ok for the inside stuff but I wasn't happy with the progress of it leveling out the side panels. So I ended up laying the cabinet down so I can work on one side at a time. I sanded most of that primer off except for down in the grain sections and then I'm using rattle can filler primer. Got 4 cans on just one side so far and its feeling pretty nice.

bperkins01 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 12, 2019, 08:35:53 am »

You've inspired me to try Robotron on my cabinet..
I started it up and nothing was configured right.. I set up the joystick and some buttons..
I should have come back to the thread and looked at your CP

2 joysticks!

I'll reconfigure Player1 and Player2 sticks. That will work better!

Zeosstud · « **Reply #60 on:** March 14, 2019, 01:02:22 am »

Looking forward to what you get done next!!

Wyo · « **Reply #61 on:** March 18, 2019, 11:33:51 pm »

Awesome work, I love this project!

Gilrock · « **Reply #62 on:** March 19, 2019, 12:58:41 am »

Thanks I'm still chipping away at it. Just stripped and repainted the coin door panel tonight because I messed it up the first time. Just when you think it's ok to do one more spray pass. It looks fine then I come out 15 minutes later and its drooping. So I stripped that panel and laid it so it's flat this time. I also diverted some time this weekend to doing a cap kit on my Defender monitor. Had some issues getting that working. I still don't like the colors so I'm going to work on it some more. Red is really strong and green and blue are weak. Tweaking the black level I can get green and blue to look good but then I gotta turn red down so far that it looks muddy. Everything does look better on the monitor though so it was an improvement.

Gilrock · « **Reply #63 on:** March 19, 2019, 12:16:31 pm »

Well the coin door panel redo looks great. It only has one coat over the primer and I'm worried trying to add more paint may just make things worse so I think I'm going to leave it as is.

I went to the Sherwin Williams automotive store and was going to buy a metallic silver. I was only going to get a half gallon. She rings it up and along with the required mixer it came to $216. I said well just print that out and let me think about it. I went back to Home Depot and I'm going to just try using Rustoleum oil-based Aluminum color.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #64 on:** March 21, 2019, 12:19:33 am »

Love everything about this build.. you need to get it working so we can race to 1,000,000, Pedestal vs Full Size awesomeness, battle of the JROK boards!!

- Zeosstud

Gilrock · « **Reply #65 on:** March 21, 2019, 09:03:05 am »

The way painting is going I'll never finish. I have a nice Fuji Mini Mite 3 HPLV gravity sprayer but this silver paint is like a magnifier if it's not a perfectly flat surface. I just don't think I can work with it unless I lay it on its side and do one surface at a time. I can't spend the proper time sanding with it upright. Seems like you gotta sand off 97% of what you just sprayed on to fill in the other 3% imperfections. At some point I'll just say enough is enough because once its done nobody coming over will really even be able to see the sides or give a crap about what it looks like.

Gilrock · « **Reply #66 on:** March 21, 2019, 09:24:07 am »

Quote from: Zeosstud on March 21, 2019, 12:19:33 am

Love everything about this build.. you need to get it working so we can race to 1,000,000, Pedestal vs Full Size awesomeness, battle of the JROK boards!!

- Zeosstud

If I can't score high it will be all on me and not the cabinet.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #67 on:** March 21, 2019, 09:38:39 am »

I know EXACTLY how you feel.. :-)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

jennifer · « **Reply #68 on:** March 21, 2019, 09:47:42 am »

Usually you can cheat it a bit when you are that close, with satin clear, your problem will still be there just hidden by distraction, make sure it is compatable with your paint if you try it (same brand is usually safe).

Gilrock · « **Reply #69 on:** March 21, 2019, 10:18:27 am »

Quote from: jennifer on March 21, 2019, 09:47:42 am

Usually you can cheat it a bit when you are that close, with satin clear, your problem will still be there just hidden by distraction, make sure it is compatable with your paint if you try it (same brand is usually safe).

Yeah I believe everything on the sides is oil based. I used Filler Primer spray cans and thought I had it fairly smooth. I knew it wasn't perfect but it felt really smooth when you run your hand over it. Seems like the aluminum color shows marks that you almost can't feel with your fingernail. The aluminum color is rustoleum oil based and I was going to use rattle cans for the red and blue because I didn't see colors I liked in anything else. It was my first time spraying oil based and I gotta say I kinda liked it. It seemed to spray much nicer than latex. And I'm using the 3M cup system so cleanup was pretty easy.

If I spray a clear coat I would imagine doing it after spraying the red/blue stencils would be best but at that point there's no going back if you don't like how the silver looks. Painting is my weakest skill.

JDFan · « **Reply #70 on:** March 21, 2019, 10:43:59 am »

Wouldn't worry too much about it since even the factory cabs had imperfections in them

Gilrock · « **Reply #71 on:** March 21, 2019, 11:27:47 am »

Yeah I'm afraid the poor quality of the originals has no bearing on the level of quality I expect from myself.

jennifer · « **Reply #72 on:** March 21, 2019, 01:09:42 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on March 21, 2019, 11:27:47 am

Yeah I'm afraid the poor quality of the originals has no bearing on the level of quality I expect from myself.

You will know from experience next time and no reason it can't be something to be proud of...Without seeing it, Jenn would let it dry, cured out in fact, Just set it aside in a warm place (work on somthing else for awhile) and in a week or three sand it flat again with 400/800 grit, and repaint.

Gilrock · « **Reply #73 on:** March 21, 2019, 01:56:46 pm »

Hell if you're using 400 grit it's already flat in my book...

Gilrock · « **Reply #74 on:** April 03, 2019, 11:33:12 am »

Well I'm about to go back and strip the sides down to the wood for the 3rd time. At one point I had it lying sideways and sprayed what I expected to be the last coat on one side. It was looking perfect. My wife comes home and does something she almost never does....opens the garage door. I run out yelling noooooooo.... Got the door back down and everything seemed ok. Come back out and check it 2 hours later and there are 2 moths stuck in the paint. In the morning that side looked perfect except for the moths. I tried sanding them out but they seemed to be dug in like 3 layers of paint and it just looked too messed up in that area. I ended up stripping it back down to the wood on both sides. Then I tried just leaving it standing up and spraying both sides at once. It actually was looking pretty good and I was going to accept that you could see a little bit of the wood grain texture. It didn't feel deep at all. I lightly sanded and thought just one more coat. Spray on that coat and its just looking worse like it has pock marks in the areas where it was grainier. It just seems like the paint avoids the divots and looks worse every coat. This paint just doesn't sand very well no matter how long I let it dry. Whether I use an orbital sander or a manual sanding block it always gathers in the middle of the paper and I had to try to clean it off with a razor edge every 10 seconds. The filler primer was the only thing that sanded very well but that try got messed up by the moths. Between buying stencils, an HPLV sprayer, paint, sanding pads, and other junk I'll probably have $1,500 in this paint job when I'm done.

jennifer · « **Reply #75 on:** April 03, 2019, 12:38:37 pm »

That is actually a fun story, most of us have been there...From what you are describing that sounds like orangepeel, probably need to thin your paint a little more, and keep it wetter by overlapping your passes next time faster with less tack...For now Jenn would just stop and let it dry (or your going to have shrinkage issues)(infered Uv lights, like incubator chicken egg lights from the farm store, or hot natural sunlight will speed up your dry times...And take your wife out on a date night, she probibally feels bad about the moths.

Gilrock · « **Reply #76 on:** April 03, 2019, 03:22:25 pm »

This paint is already super thin. If I spray the cab upright I have to be super careful to keep the flow very minimum to keep it from running. I had a friend who paint professionally come over and try my sprayer on a practice piece of wood and he had issues with it running. I was laughing saying dude I told you this paint will run unless you put just a really thin coat on there. I've tried going thicker when lying it flat. I don't think what I'm seeing is orange peel because I've seen what that looks like with a latex paint. This metallic oil-based paint is a completely different animal and is a big pain. I'm also learning how to use this sprayer from scratch on this project so I think I learn something each time. My lesson with this paint is you pretty much need the surface to look like however smooth you want it before spraying this metallic paint. So you gotta use primer to get it smooth don't expect to be able to sand this metallic paint very much to level the surface. And it seems like 2 to 3 thin coats is the max you should do once you get more than that it then seems to not look as good.

jennifer · « **Reply #77 on:** April 03, 2019, 06:45:27 pm »

You have learned some valuable information during the course of this... Cars for example are usually painted in coats of 3. Your gun is not set up correctly, First look a the cap for the tip, It should be around 1.4 for what you are doing, a 1.8 go example would be too big. I it clean? Those little holed next to the center hole need to be open, that is your atomization, The vent on the cap needs to be open too or it will vaporlock...And finally with your pressure around 25psi, turn the fluid knob in a bit (try 1/4 turn clockwise) It is the knob on the back directly in line with the centerhole on the front.

Gilrock · « **Reply #78 on:** April 03, 2019, 07:54:14 pm »

This is my gun:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NPPNM

So I'm using a 1.3 needle. I clean it after every use. I currently don't have a way to measure pressure I'd need to buy a gauge to mount at the end of the hose. I know what all the controls do and I can disassemble and reassemble this gun in my sleep now. I've experimented with several different positions of the fluid knob. One video I watched from a professional car painter the guy said he liked to turn the knob in till you just start to feel it push the handle and then he said you control the spray by how far you pull back the handle. I've done that and I've also tried racking it all the way in and then backing it out till I was getting a fine spray. I think I've done a pretty good job spraying my failures are probably more along the lines of not properly sanding flat between coats or not waiting long enough to sand and things like that. This last time the first 3 coats sprayed beautiful and I should have just left it alone and gone with those results. I tried to push it one more coat to get rid of a bit of the wood grain look and things went south. And by the way this paint from the store sucks. It comes with a big pile of sludge at the bottom of the can and I spend 15 minutes stirring it. For one of the quarts I had the guy in the store break it loose and run it through their shaker twice and that was probably the best result. I might be dealing with paint that's just too old.

Gilrock · « **Reply #79 on:** April 03, 2019, 07:56:26 pm »

If I could find a local expert I'd pay to have them use my gun just once to show me how its done and maybe see if something is not setup right. It definitely doesn't seem like the paint comes out "atomized".

Ond · « **Reply #80 on:** April 03, 2019, 08:36:10 pm »

Sorry to hear about your painting challenges. From what I've read, I think you are correct about the primer preparation of the surface and its importance. If you can still see grain or bumps after you've applied several coats of primer and wet sanded back then the primer surface is too thin. Regardless of the type of finish you want, be it mat/semi-gloss or high-gloss that prepared surface has to be smooth. Think dull plastic. The dull plastic finish is a 600 grit finish and no less. No smoother though or you start to impact paint adhesion. Paint needs some micro roughness to adhere best.

As an example, my Xenolix cab (bartop) is at the dull plastic primed stage. I'll be spraying it with rattle cans of mat black. It won't be sanded after each of two coats at all. The finish will be smooth and even because of the surface preparation and because of the quality of the rattle cans. I normally use my spray gun these days, but won't be for that particular project because of the type of paint I want to use.

This is what I suggest. Step 1...don't let it get to ya!

Get the primer finish free of grain with a few coats, say three or four. Wet sand each back just enough to dull smooth using 600 grit. Put your gun aside for the time being until you can get your technique perfected more. Use some good quality rattle cans that match the primer type. That paint you’re using seems a bit suspect as well. I'd recommend spraying on horizontal surfaces, it's just so much easier. It does takes longer to get things done but it's worth it. I still try to avoid spraying vertical surfaces unless absolutely necessary.

We can chat about painting stuff over a beer soon enough

Gilrock · « **Reply #81 on:** April 03, 2019, 08:52:29 pm »

After I stripped it last round I tried to just spray on the final color and didn't add more primer because it appeared the grain was already somewhat filled in since you can't strip it out of the crevasses and I thought it might not look that bad to have a little wood grain look since my Defender cab from the old days you can see the grain and you can see where they inserted those eyeball plugs to fix defects in the wood. I bought a few rattle cans with the same Aluminum color and the one side I experimented on it just seemed like I wasn't able to get a uniform look. I know you're supposed to keep walking up the wet line.

Gilrock · « **Reply #82 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:00:59 am »

Ok round 3. I stripped this side back to wood and then put several coats of filler primer and had it sanded with 400 grit. It felt the smoothest I've had it before spraying the real color. I tried one can of spray paint and the uniformity was terrible. So after that dried I used my HPLV gravity sprayer. With the silver paint that's when a bunch of tiny imperfections show up that I couldn't even see in the filler primer. This is where I get unsure how to handle it. Those imperfections appear to be almost the entire thickness of the coat I sprayed on so it seems like I'd need to sand off the entire coat to get this smooth again. Anyways I attached the best photo I could get. Hard to photo a flat grey surface.

Mike A · « **Reply #83 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:09:53 am »

I wish I could help you with paint. I have almost no experience with painting. I have a family friend that owns an auto body shop. I think I would take a cab to him if I ever needed one painted.

Gilrock · « **Reply #84 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:21:15 am »

Part of me wants to just call that good enough. I really want to get to playing this thing not just stare are a pretty paint job....lol.

Mike A · « **Reply #85 on:** April 10, 2019, 10:35:26 am »

Just get 2 more cabs. Put Robotron in the middle. Problem solved. You are welcome.

jennifer · « **Reply #86 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:22:57 pm »

That's getting really close...I am thinking your paint is not thick enough to get the mils (thickness) you need for coverage. This time take a pencil and circle all your problems, and with auto body glaze putty and a razorblade cleaned off with acetone fill all your problems flat and smooth, not a pile but a scrape flat with the cabinet, only do like 4 at a time or so because that stuff sets really fast an gets clumpy and unworkable in like2 min....Sand again with 400, randomly and evenly and completly, and with your paint a bit thicker, test your pattern on cardboard, your looking for a long skinny oval about 4inches long, at around 20psi,... Evenly spray a coat not wet but sticky and pimply but do it evenly everywhere, This is your tack coat, its really light and thin, and looks horrible, when you get all the way around don't stop where you started should be sticky not dry, Coat two is coverage and build, (done correctly you have effectively bridged any misgivings) this time you want build and coverage even overlapping passes, it should look painted at this point just kind of thin, and probably a missed spot here and there... Walk away for 15 min (depending on conditions, I smoke A lucky and mix a new batch of color in that time) But Not telling you to smoke, Mike A would get all offended.

... it needs to tack, touch the tape, it should be sticky, not dry for coat 3...Again even overlapping passes this time is the money shot, the shine, this is what you will be looking at forever, make it wet, from about 5 inches away, smooth even coats overlapping your passes, go past the edge of you panel before you let off the trigger, just like a crop duster come back for the next pass, Not too much or it will drip, just enough to get that awesome shine

Mike A · « **Reply #87 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:28:34 pm »

Quote

Walk away for 15 min (depending on conditions, I smoke A lucky and mix a new batch of color in that time) But Not telling you to smoke, Mike A would get all offended. ...

I an not offended Jen. I am just worried about your health.

I need you around so when I am 85 I can tell you that I learned how to weld.

Gilrock · « **Reply #88 on:** April 10, 2019, 02:36:20 pm »

Thanks for the detailed reply. I was somewhat close to that. I did quick overlapping passes using horizontal strokes and then I did another set of overlapping passes but used long vertical strokes. I'm in the habit of starting and stopping out past the edge of the wood. I've watched enough videos to learn that part.

The only thing I'm not sure I can do is make the paint any thicker. This is oil based and is already super thin. This time with the gun I made sure the pressure valve was fully open since I had partially closed it before. And I screwed the flow knob all the way in till it shutoff and then backed it out till I was getting a light spray. I was pretty happy with how it felt when it sprayed this time. Most of the issues seemed to be more with not having a perfect surface than any spraying issue except for being stuck with the thinness of the paint.

jennifer · « **Reply #89 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:05:07 pm »

On that first tack coat then, Turn your pressure down a little, it will leave thicker heavier pimples which will hide more and get a thicker mil base, Doning this however do not let it dry or you will get horrible orange peel, Once you get a good sticky coverage, turn your pressure back up a bit and just keep going around the cab right into your second coat.

jennifer · « **Reply #90 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:42:11 pm »

Back that fluid needle out...Take the knob off completly, and then thread it back on about 1 turn. (Don't forget there is a spring on there)...Your trigger should pull back full range now, When spraying only pull it back about half way to control amount. That may help you, since you won't be limited to the stop, or potentially bending the needle, and you can adjust amount on the fly by how far you pull the trigger, critical on large areas like that.

Gilrock · « **Reply #91 on:** April 10, 2019, 03:55:36 pm »

I should video my next spraying attempt so it can be easier to show what I'm doing instead of me describing it.

Gilrock · « **Reply #92 on:** April 11, 2019, 09:59:50 am »

So this is what has happened to me every time I try to apply a thicker coating. When I tried to describe this before people thought I was talking about "orange peel". I didn't think this is what people called orange peel. I call it divots like the paint is allergic to the wood in a few spots. I thought orange peel was more of a more uniform bumpiness across the surface. I've even had these things not be visible at first and then form as the paint dries. I've never seen this happen with latex only this oil based paint. The first time I thought it was something on the surface of the wood like oil from my fingers so I've tried using denatured alcohol to clean the surface before spraying. I've tried using another product called after wash which is supposed to clean the wood after you have used the paint stripper product. I've wondered if it could be tiny amounts of cleaner that are stuck in the spray gun from when I cleaned up after last use. It just only seems to show like this when I do thicker coats that have that good shine.

javeryh · « **Reply #93 on:** April 11, 2019, 11:57:18 am »

Do those spots appear in the same spot every time or is it always different? If they are in the same spots, you have an issue with the cabinet (try sanding and adding a layer of bondo instead of just another layer of paint) but if it is in different spots you have an issue with the paint (or the spray gun). Not sure how to correct that...

Mike A · « **Reply #94 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:03:51 pm »

I applaud your patience man. I would have used gasoline and a match by now. And I would have thrown the sprayer on top of the fire just to watch it suffer.

jennifer · « **Reply #95 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:10:50 pm »

You are so very close man... What you got there is called fisheyes, A contamination... Most likely water from the compressor, drain your tank, add a water trap bulb to the end of your gun, (cheap) lightly fill the problem areas again sand it down as far as you dare without hitting wood...And you are golden.

Gilrock · « **Reply #96 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:22:07 pm »

Hmm...well there is no "tank" it's a turbine compressor but I'll still see what I can find for filtering near the gun.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D4NPPNM

jennifer · « **Reply #97 on:** April 11, 2019, 12:37:22 pm »

That seems like a fun little set up... It doesn't seem to have a tank, but what you got there is contamination coming from somewhere, hose, oil blow by, silicone in your work area, resins in your wood, but normally water is the culprit, because you are actually squeezing the humidity out of the air of it by pressurizing it,...https://www.harborfreight.com/oilwater-separator-68246.html

Gilrock · « **Reply #98 on:** April 12, 2019, 01:57:36 pm »

Well I've sanded and sprayed 2 more times. I think I'm going to call it good for this side. There is only that one spot in the lower left that I might try to touch up but I don't think I want to risk spraying it again and things going backwards. I'm trying to decide if I should spray a clearcoat over it and let that dry before using the stencil. I've seen this metallic paint leave smears if I touch it even like 3 days later so I'd like to seal it where I could wipe off dust if needed before applying the stencil.

Gilrock · « **Reply #99 on:** April 12, 2019, 01:58:50 pm »

One video I saw they waited a week before using the stencil.

jennifer · « **Reply #100 on:** April 12, 2019, 05:06:20 pm »

That needs to not only be completely dry but also cured before stencil or clear, It will try to dry under the clear and you will get solvent pops (Pimples everywhere)...It will look like horse butt.

Gilrock · « **Reply #101 on:** April 12, 2019, 06:53:57 pm »

I knew I needed to wait before applying the stencil but wasn't sure about the clear paint. I didn't realize it was any different than putting on another coat of paint. So I gotta wait at least a week? Waiting sucks...lol.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #102 on:** April 12, 2019, 07:25:24 pm »

You gotta wait to paint, fine, what about dialing in the settings of those Joysticks, get your game on.. :-)

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Gilrock · « **Reply #103 on:** April 12, 2019, 07:35:59 pm »

Quote from: Zeosstud on April 12, 2019, 07:25:24 pm

You gotta wait to paint, fine, what about dialing in the settings of those Joysticks, get your game on.. :-)

Yeah at this point I don't even know how those joysticks should feel. I gotta wait till it's setup and running to judge them.

Gilrock · « **Reply #104 on:** April 12, 2019, 08:15:02 pm »

I got a new toy today that will keep me busy till the paint dries.

Mike A · « **Reply #105 on:** April 13, 2019, 10:35:33 am »

Very nice.

Gilrock · « **Reply #106 on:** April 22, 2019, 10:43:21 am »

Well I've decided that aluminum metallic paint just isn't going to work. The problem I have with it is no matter how long I've waited for it to dry even after a week I cannot find anything that it can be wiped with that won't leave streaks. It's like it has some kind of graphite in the paint that gets lifted and smears. So I tried putting a coat of clear oil-based poly over top. When that dried it was great. It looked good and I could wipe it down with Isopropyl alcohol without any marks. I tested the surface by putting some painters tape on it near the bottom and then pulled it off and it seemed fine. So I went ahead and did the first blue stencil on that side. It was looking awesome then 1/3 of the way through pulling the stencil off I could see the blue paint was lifting and realized it was pulling up the poly layer. So I ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up that stencil. I was able to use a razor to grab edges and pulled the entire poly layer back off. So I guess since I wasn't able to touch the aluminum layer it was too smooth and the poly didn't bond. Now I gotta see if they can sell me just the one stencil piece since the other 3 pieces are just fine. Of course you email and then just sit here not hearing anything.

So I decided to try a different paint. Forget the metallic paint and just pick an oil-based grey color. I have to say this new grey paint is a completely different animal from the other paint so I'm having completely different issues but I think it will work out better. It's a thicker paint so I thinned it but I ended up with orange peel...first time I had seen that happen. I thought I had thinned it quite a bit...I'd estimate 20% and with my setup there is no way to increase pressure like I see recommended in videos. I tried just laying it on heavy since it was horizontal but the paint did not level out. After a couple hours I could tell it wasn't going to look right so I used paint thinner and rags and completely wiped off that attempt. I remixed a new batch and played with the adjustments practicing on a piece of spare wood. So I laid down another layer. It still didn't seem perfectly smooth but it wasn't as bad as that first time. I just left it as a really thin coat and I'll check out how it looks tonight. I feel like I'm getting a crash course on everything that can possibly go wrong on this one cab.

jennifer · « **Reply #107 on:** April 22, 2019, 11:50:23 am »

At this point I would start over, (not what you wanted to hear right?).....That would include changing your paint to at least a rustolium grade enamal, Set the cab on cardboard and starting at top strip it clean with paint stripper (W/mart sells 3 grades the extreme works well but does stink, read safety)...Wipe it down with the reducer for your new paint to neutralize striper, let dry...I would also be curious of your air pressure with that fancy compressor, A inline gun regulator with a Gage (from auto store) will tell the story, Put it on your gun then the watertrap, Then the hose...Don't feel bad it happens to everyone, Jenn has a redo issues with that pin, so very not happy.

Gilrock · « **Reply #108 on:** April 22, 2019, 12:33:42 pm »

I've already stripped it down twice so there's not as much paint on there as it might sound. And yesterday after removing the paint I had it sanded down smooth and it was a good starting surface. If I complete strip it now I'd basically be removing all the primer and then have to go through several primer iterations again to get it smooth. I thought this last spray looked pretty nice. I'm not going for perfect smoothness just want it to look uniform. With this paint I don't think I'll need to try to clear coat it before I stencil because its not metallic and won't have the issue I had with the other paint.

The specs say this sprayer is 9psi....I found this review about it:
https://paintingsilo.com/fuji-mini-mite-4-review/

Gilrock · « **Reply #109 on:** April 22, 2019, 07:41:20 pm »

Amazing how much easier it went now that I changed paint. I'm already happy with this side. It's not auto finish smooth by a long shot but from a couple feet away it looks great. Gonna work on stripping and redoing the other side next while I wait on a new stencil for the first layer. Just got an email back and they said this happens all the time where a customer wants just one part of the stencil replaced.

Mike A · « **Reply #110 on:** April 22, 2019, 08:18:53 pm »

Gilrock · « **Reply #111 on:** April 28, 2019, 05:06:18 pm »

I painted the stencil on one side this weekend. Had a few issues I'll know to look out for when I do the other side. One is I didn't cover the pacman shapes used for registration on the first blue layer so since they had pre-cut it I ended up with thin blue pacman lines in those 3 places. They don't warn you about it but I had watched a video from someone else doing a Robotron stencil and had seen them cover those spots so I just spaced it. I tried to use Iso Alcohol to remove the thin blue lines but it was discoloring the whole area so I stopped. Then I tried to just scratch off as much blue as I could and then I used a brush to spot paint those 3 areas. It actually doesn't look bad in the photo but if you get at a different angle and the light hit it you can see the brush strokes. I'm not sure how to make that look much better without messing things up and I'm not redoing the whole side. The other issue was I really needed to get help when pulling off the stencil since I needed 3 hands. Laying it flat was easier to paint but for pulling off the stencil vertical would have been better. There were a couple times where a piece of the stencil wanted to fall back onto the painted areas so I had a couple marks. Luckily it mainly happened on the blue and once the red was added it doesn't stand out much at all.

Trying to decide if I should paint a clear poly layer over this after it cures. Kinda nervous to do anything else cause if it goes bad it messes up the whole stencil.

Arroyo · « **Reply #112 on:** April 28, 2019, 05:11:39 pm »

Fantastic, really looks nice!!

Mike A · « **Reply #113 on:** April 28, 2019, 05:31:38 pm »

Nice.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #114 on:** April 28, 2019, 07:11:33 pm »

Looks really good, can not wait to see the rest when it is done.. You gotta be getting a little excited.. I mean, eventually you do have to actually play it, you know that right??

Zeosstud

Laythe · « **Reply #115 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:06:00 pm »

Props for going the stencil route! That looks awesome.

Gilrock · « **Reply #116 on:** May 01, 2019, 09:34:08 am »

A few updates:

Stencil: Gotta give props to This Old Game. It appears they are sending a replacement for the one stencil sheet I messed up and they only charged me the shipping. I was fully expecting to pay about 25% of the original cost so that was a nice surprise.

Joysticks: Got the ArcadeShop Wicos removed and installed the rebuilt Wicos that AndrewB from KLOV made for me. The ArcadeShop sticks were really stiff so I like these rebuilt ones. I'm curious if everyone sets the leafs so that they require only a tiny amount of movement to make contact. One good thing is I believe I will get to play on an original cab this weekend so I'm anxious to get the feel of those joysticks for comparison.

CP Wiring: Got all the wiring on the control panel done. I kept it simple and used the premade jamma harness cables that I bought for the JROK board. I needed to design a standoff for the 2 leaf switches for the player 1 & 2 buttons. So I designed a u-shaped part with the 2 holes that perfectly match the leaf switch and kept it 0.35" off the board. I don't even know how to run our 3D printer because I let my son build it so I had to text him in college and he had me turn on his PC and next thing you know I see the mouse moving around and he's remoted in and sets up the job so all I had to do was power up the printer and the PC and he got my parts printed. They worked perfect.

Gameplay: Now that I had enough pieces to try it out I played a few games last night. I was having to try to hold the control panel in my lap so it wasn't optimal but I'm excited because I felt like I was doing so much better than I usually do on my MAME cab. I've been playing a ton of hours on my MAME cab lately. I'm curious to know what the default settings are on the JROK board because it just felt so much easier. I've been playing difficulty level 5 on MAME. I felt like I was in the Matrix where everything was slowed down a slight bit and I could dodge things that normally kill me. In MAME I feel like I'm always being killed and thinking no way my bullet just rendered on the other side of the guy that killed me. I assume if I get the test and service inputs wired up I'd be able to get to the Robotron settings screens.

meltman · « **Reply #117 on:** May 01, 2019, 12:17:43 pm »

The stencil looks phenomenal.

Excited to see this one completed.

wp34 · « **Reply #118 on:** May 01, 2019, 01:31:36 pm »

That turned out great. Made it worth all your attention to detail with the painting.

Gilrock · « **Reply #119 on:** May 02, 2019, 01:07:39 am »

Wow I now understand the hype about the original Wico joysticks. I'm spoiled I cannot play the game on my MAME cab anymore. I'm choosing to sit there balancing the control panel in my lap instead cause it feels so awesome. I'm already feeling like I have better reflexes and I'm making moves near enemies without running into them as much. It probably part joystick as well as no LCD input lag. I can't wait to get the cab running so I don't have to balance the control panel when playing.

opt2not · « **Reply #120 on:** May 02, 2019, 04:27:00 am »

Yeah buddy! The original Wico's is the best way to play this game. I've tried so many different joysticks before I got my original cab, and it's incredible how your performance increases on the original joysticks.

Gilrock · « **Reply #121 on:** May 02, 2019, 08:11:39 am »

Here's the simple switch base I created and had my son 3D print:

Gilrock · « **Reply #122 on:** May 04, 2019, 01:21:25 am »

Wow big difference getting to play on real machines. My best on MAME after 3 months was 420,000. Got 472,000 on my first game at Zapcon and now just posted 706,000. Of course Opt2not posted close to 2.4 million.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

nexusmtz · « **Reply #123 on:** May 04, 2019, 02:02:45 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 04, 2019, 01:21:25 am

Wow big difference getting to play on real machines. My best on MAME after 3 months was 420,000. Got 472,000 on my first game at Zapcon and now just posted 706,000. Of course Opt2not posted close to 2.4 million.

Way to get into the groove!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Zeosstud · « **Reply #124 on:** May 04, 2019, 11:37:24 pm »

Dropping 700k like it's hot.. That is a great start..

- Zeosstud

opt2not · « **Reply #125 on:** May 08, 2019, 06:17:54 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 04, 2019, 01:21:25 am

Wow big difference getting to play on real machines. My best on MAME after 3 months was 420,000. Got 472,000 on my first game at Zapcon and now just posted 706,000. Of course Opt2not posted close to 2.4 million.

Great job on the improvement.

What would you say is the biggest difference from Mame to the real deal? Though, I believe that machine you scored on had a JROK, so the closest thing next to the real deal.

Was it the joystick quality? Perhaps the spacing between them? Or maybe it was the lack of lag? Use of CRT?
I don't remember if mame had any lag, but if you're used to playing on LCD there would be a bit of display lag. For a game like this, even at the slightest bit of lag can effect your twitch ability.

Gilrock · « **Reply #126 on:** May 08, 2019, 07:28:40 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on May 08, 2019, 06:17:54 pm

Quote from: Gilrock on May 04, 2019, 01:21:25 am
Wow big difference getting to play on real machines. My best on MAME after 3 months was 420,000. Got 472,000 on my first game at Zapcon and now just posted 706,000. Of course Opt2not posted close to 2.4 million.
Great job on the improvement.

What would you say is the biggest difference from Mame to the real deal? Though, I believe that machine you scored on had a JROK, so the closest thing next to the real deal.

Was it the joystick quality? Perhaps the spacing between them? Or maybe it was the lack of lag? Use of CRT?
I don't remember if mame had any lag, but if you're used to playing on LCD there would be a bit of display lag. For a game like this, even at the slightest bit of lag can effect your twitch ability.

Well I didn't post it but I did top out at 806,000 for the weekend. I did that score on the same machine you hit 10 mil on so I thought it was original hardware or did that one have a JROK? I tried my MAME cab again last night to try to figure out the difference. My joysticks are definitely a problem. I have the Ultimarc Servostiks. It takes too much movement to switch between positions like going from left to right so you can't wiggle between things. So I'm not sure how it would be if I was able to use different joysticks but still use the LCD and MAME.

opt2not · « **Reply #127 on:** May 08, 2019, 09:34:53 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 08, 2019, 07:28:40 pm

Well I didn't post it but I did top out at 806,000 for the weekend. I did that score on the same machine you hit 10 mil on so I thought it was original hardware or did that one have a JROK? I tried my MAME cab again last night to try to figure out the difference. My joysticks are definitely a problem. I have the Ultimarc Servostiks. It takes too much movement to switch between positions like going from left to right so you can't wiggle between things. So I'm not sure how it would be if I was able to use different joysticks but still use the LCD and MAME.

Yeah I believe that one had a JROK. But the difference between the JROK and original PCB's is imperceptible, really. The JROK has the advantage of not having that corner shot crash bug that is in some of the different rom versions on the original.

Gilrock · « **Reply #128 on:** May 10, 2019, 01:03:35 pm »

It's getting exciting I can see the finish line. Got the monitor shroud and monitor installed last night. Then I re-installed the control panel and laid everything inside and played a few games with no sound. It's feeling nice!

So need to start permanently mounting everything and tidy up the cabling, install and wire up the coin door, build a back panel, install a marquee light. From the front its probably going to look finished tonight so it should be playable and just need to tie up some loose ends.

Arroyo · « **Reply #129 on:** May 10, 2019, 05:25:48 pm »

Pics?

Ond · « **Reply #130 on:** May 10, 2019, 06:11:16 pm »

Those switches you made have inspired me! I'm going to go off and experiment with some leaf designs of my own. Leafs FTW!

Mike A · « **Reply #131 on:** May 10, 2019, 07:02:44 pm »

I'll drink to that.

Gilrock · « **Reply #132 on:** May 10, 2019, 09:14:08 pm »

Ok here's a quick pic. Need to get better ones later. I noticed weird reflections on the stencil that make it look like the red is bleeding into the blue that made me run out and check it and no it's perfect so not sure what that artifact is.

Mike A · « **Reply #133 on:** May 10, 2019, 09:22:53 pm »

Dude.

Arroyo · « **Reply #134 on:** May 10, 2019, 10:57:13 pm »

Damn bro, looks fantastic!

opt2not · « **Reply #135 on:** May 10, 2019, 11:01:59 pm »

Yeah it’s looking great!

I should have mentioned this at Zapcon, but the original factory-made Robotron’s didn’t have perfect stenciling. There are lots of imperfections and overspray spots on the originals , so if you are worried about authenticity, keep that in mind.

Gilrock · « **Reply #136 on:** May 10, 2019, 11:24:23 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on May 10, 2019, 11:01:59 pm

Yeah it’s looking great!

I should have mentioned this at Zapcon, but the original factory-made Robotron’s didn’t have perfect stenciling. There are lots of imperfections and overspray spots on the originals , so if you are worried about authenticity, keep that in mind.

After all the time I spent on painting I'm happy with it and I'm not touching those sides again...lol. I do need to touch up where the control panel scratched the inside black a little. Had to put that plastic piece on the belt sander and shorten it a smidge. I tried to be pretty close to original but I know I took a few liberties. Like in the back I'm thinking of just having one large panel instead of the 2 panels I saw on the original. I also don't have the lower coin door but I would put one in if I found one but I'm not gonna sweat it to leave it off.

Nephasth · « **Reply #137 on:** May 10, 2019, 11:37:45 pm »

Beautiful machine!

yotsuya · « **Reply #138 on:** May 11, 2019, 12:13:02 am »

Great job, Gil!

jennifer · « **Reply #139 on:** May 11, 2019, 12:37:59 am »

Now that is something to be quite proud of, Nice job man!

Gilrock · « **Reply #140 on:** May 13, 2019, 05:46:52 pm »

Thanks all.

I have one issue and not sure if there is a way to fix it. When I power up the monitor displays a mess like it's not in sync. If I flip the switch off for a second or two and back on it fixes the monitor and the JROK seems to stays up. Before I had everything running off the same power input I saw the same issue so I was in the habit of plugging in the JROK first and then the monitor. Seems like I need something that will delay the power to the monitor so that it has the JROK sync signal when it powers up.

Mike A · « **Reply #141 on:** May 13, 2019, 05:53:23 pm »

That is interesting. I use a JROK in my Defender cab and I don't have that problem.

Gilrock · « **Reply #142 on:** May 13, 2019, 05:57:28 pm »

Quote from: Mike A on May 13, 2019, 05:53:23 pm

That is interesting. I use a JROK in my Defender cab and I don't have that problem.

Yeah it could be specific to this monitor. I should swap it with the monitor I put in my Defender and see which way the problem goes. I like the monitor in the Defender better as well. This one in the Robotron has some wrong coloring in the corners like the yoke needs adjusting.

jennifer · « **Reply #143 on:** May 13, 2019, 06:18:56 pm »

You may want to hold off on messing with that yoke until you have exhausted all other options, The neck is quite fragile and most of those yokes are glued on, Not to mention that is more of a convergence thing.

opt2not · « **Reply #144 on:** May 13, 2019, 06:21:07 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 13, 2019, 05:57:28 pm

Quote from: Mike A on May 13, 2019, 05:53:23 pm
That is interesting. I use a JROK in my Defender cab and I don't have that problem.

Yeah it could be specific to this monitor. I should swap it with the monitor I put in my Defender and see which way the problem goes. I like the monitor in the Defender better as well. This one in the Robotron has some wrong coloring in the corners like the yoke needs adjusting.

Just a dumb/simple suggestion, but have you tried a degaussing wand to get rid of the corner discoloration?

Mike A · « **Reply #145 on:** May 13, 2019, 06:21:45 pm »

Do you have unshielded speakers near the discolorations?

Mike A · « **Reply #146 on:** May 13, 2019, 06:22:16 pm »

You beat me to it opt.

Gilrock · « **Reply #147 on:** May 13, 2019, 06:37:25 pm »

Quote from: jennifer on May 13, 2019, 06:18:56 pm

You may want to hold off on messing with that yoke until you have exhausted all other options, The neck is quite fragile and most of those yokes are glued on, Not to mention that is more of a convergence thing.

I wasn't going to mess with the yoke right now that's why I would swap monitors to put my best monitor in the Robotron. But I'm not sure its a convergence thing I think it's a purity issue. I've searched this stuff quite a bit last few months. Around the 9:45 mark in this video you can see what happens if the yoke is not adjusted right you start to get the green and blue on the sides. That seems to be what I'm dealing with plus I need to try one more go at degaussing it.

Gilrock · « **Reply #148 on:** May 13, 2019, 06:45:28 pm »

Somehow I missed seeing there were 3 or 4 replies. Yes I had tried degaussing it a few months ago and didn't see much change. I was going to give it one more try since it's installed in the cab.

I've got just one speaker and it's centered facing down into the speaker grill. I had the issue before I put the monitor in the cab though.

jennifer · « **Reply #149 on:** May 13, 2019, 11:19:16 pm »

Well... Most of what your going to see in a random study vid like that is quick and easy.

Gilrock · « **Reply #150 on:** May 13, 2019, 11:52:37 pm »

Yeah you know I kinda wanted to fix the monitor startup problem I wasn't asking for help with the color in the corner issue I got that handled.

PL1 · « **Reply #151 on:** May 14, 2019, 12:06:11 am »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 13, 2019, 05:46:52 pm

Seems like I need something that will delay the power to the monitor so that it has the JROK sync signal when it powers up.

Something like a time delay relay?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,119435.msg1284622.html#msg1284622

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,140138.msg1450494.html#msg1450494

Scott

opt2not · « **Reply #152 on:** May 14, 2019, 12:16:05 am »

I’m sorry Gil, I just realized I asked the same question about degaussing in the first page of this thread. My bad.

Also, I fear that the time delay power-up isn’t going to address the issue that your monitor isn’t syncing right on power-up. I’m willing to bet that there are components in the sync circuit that is next to failure.

If you haven’t done so yet, I’d take a serious look at the chassis for all major solder joints, make sure they aren’t cracked or sunken. Especially the headers.

Can you post a picture or video of the sync issue on power-up? Might be helpful to determine if it’s got a problem with the horizontal or vertical sync.

meltman · « **Reply #153 on:** May 14, 2019, 10:21:05 am »

This one came out phenomenal.

Well done Gil.

javeryh · « **Reply #154 on:** May 14, 2019, 11:23:04 am »

Outstanding work - looks factory fresh!

Mike A · « **Reply #155 on:** May 14, 2019, 11:28:08 am »

Next time I see you I will buy you a case of Heinelicken. I know I already said well done, but well done.

opt2not · « **Reply #156 on:** May 14, 2019, 02:20:44 pm »

Gil, one thing I was considering installing on my cabaret was the Lightmite leaf button LED's for the dark blue start buttons.

Forum member whammoed has these for sale on his site:
http://www.nicemite.com/LightmiteLB/LightmiteLB.htm

He's got a few options, but the ones for the dark blues really look great when properly lit.

I really like how the dark blues are lit here, it's not too overbearing like most lit buttons you see these days, just enough to fully light them.
The original cabinet had incandescent bulbs that *barely* lit those buttons, even that one we played at Zapcon had them, but you could barely notice.
The lightmites run off 5v and install easily on your leaf buttons. Something to consider if you were going to light those buttons.

If you ever want to talk about debugging your K7000 issues over PM, don't hesitate to reach out. I'm in the middle of rebuilding a K7000 chassis right now and will be doing some testing very soon.

Malenko · « **Reply #157 on:** May 14, 2019, 02:49:03 pm »

Not sure how I missed this, but amazing job. Makes me want to build one to be honest.

Did we meet at Zapcon this year? I'm terrible with names.

Gilrock · « **Reply #158 on:** May 14, 2019, 03:45:12 pm »

Quote from: Malenko on May 14, 2019, 02:49:03 pm

Not sure how I missed this, but amazing job. Makes me want to build one to be honest.

Did we meet at Zapcon this year? I'm terrible with names.

I'm not sure if we spoke but I remember asking someone to point out who you were so I think we at the pool area at the same time.

Gilrock · « **Reply #159 on:** May 14, 2019, 08:50:36 pm »

Loving the play on the cab. I was so close to breaking a million just now.

nexusmtz · « **Reply #160 on:** May 14, 2019, 09:04:45 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 14, 2019, 08:50:36 pm

Loving the play on the cab. I was so close to breaking a million just now.

3 more games and you'll have it!

Gilrock · « **Reply #161 on:** May 14, 2019, 09:31:45 pm »

Ok I hooked up the TPG and got some images of what the monitor is doing and one image of what the sync looks like at power up. I've found when I power off the JROK board still runs for like 5 seconds so I've just gotten in the habit of powering up for about 5 seconds then do a 1 second power off and the monitor is fine. I did move the screen a little to the right after taking these photos.

opt2not · « **Reply #162 on:** May 15, 2019, 03:15:16 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 14, 2019, 09:31:45 pm

Hmm, if you already degaussed, then this is most likely a purity issue. You'll have to do some adjustments to the purity rings on the yoke.

There is some instructions on adjusting it in the K7000 manual:
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-monitors/Wells%20Gardner%20K7000%20Manual%20from%20Williams%20Game.pdf

There's also a flow chart regarding your sync issue, might be applicable to your boot-up sync problem. The few components to check is the Horizontal Sync Inverter Q6, and IC2. I wouldn't be surprised if either of these are starting to fail.

Edit:
Here’s a good page with some more information on purity and convergence, for your reference.
http://www.castleclassicarcade.com/archives/monitor-purity-issues

opt2not · « **Reply #163 on:** May 15, 2019, 06:58:09 pm »

Sorry for the multiple posts, here's an interesting article on bob robert's site that looks like the same issue you're having with the sync:

http://therealbobroberts.net/slanted.html

jennifer · « **Reply #164 on:** May 15, 2019, 10:30:31 pm »

**See...Second opinion, Most likely NOT the yoke.

Gilrock · « **Reply #165 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:24:19 am »

Quote from: jennifer on May 15, 2019, 10:30:31 pm

**See...Second opinion, Most likely NOT the yoke.

Ken Layton said:
"Yeh, it looks like the yoke is just a tad bit too close or too far from the tube."

Gilrock · « **Reply #166 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:30:18 am »

Quote from: opt2not on May 15, 2019, 06:58:09 pm

Sorry for the multiple posts, here's an interesting article on bob robert's site that looks like the same issue you're having with the sync:

http://therealbobroberts.net/slanted.html

Thanks Opt I'll check it out.

opt2not · « **Reply #167 on:** May 16, 2019, 02:02:32 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 16, 2019, 09:24:19 am

Quote from: jennifer on May 15, 2019, 10:30:31 pm
**See...Second opinion, Most likely NOT the yoke.

Ken Layton said:
"Yeh, it looks like the yoke is just a tad bit too close or too far from the tube."

Definitely listen to Ken, he's like the Yoda of monitors.

Mike A · « **Reply #168 on:** May 16, 2019, 02:06:55 pm »

Yoda sucked at technology. He just beat ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- with his cane.

opt2not · « **Reply #169 on:** May 16, 2019, 02:14:18 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on May 16, 2019, 02:02:32 pm

Definitely listen to Ken, he's like the Tony Stark of monitors.

@Mike A, better?

(nerd!!!)

jennifer · « **Reply #170 on:** May 16, 2019, 04:54:40 pm »

All I was sayin is messing with the yoke changes your convergence, not easy to get right again without some specialized equipment, Rather than a buch of guessing... I would be in the purity camp or possibly a shorted flyback.

Gilrock · « **Reply #171 on:** May 16, 2019, 05:15:43 pm »

Meh I already messed with convergence rings on my K4600. Its easy I saw a guy do it on YouTube plus I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

bperkins01 · « **Reply #172 on:** May 16, 2019, 05:29:18 pm »

I'm not afraid of taking pretty much anything apart and messing with it..
But I've always been afraid of TV tubes...
Yikes!

jennifer · « **Reply #173 on:** May 16, 2019, 06:42:57 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on May 16, 2019, 05:15:43 pm

Meh I already messed with convergence rings on my K4600. Its easy I saw a guy do it on YouTube plus I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Those are called purity rings @least you should get the terminology correct before you start blasting g it all over Utube...And the odds are far more likely something else is drifted or failing than the yoke magically moving out of position from the factory.

opt2not · « **Reply #174 on:** May 16, 2019, 07:04:53 pm »

Calm down, Jennifer.

Gil's a good guy. There is no need for your sass towards him.

At this point it's narrowed-down speculation, till Gil get's a chance to try a few things out.

jennifer · « **Reply #175 on:** May 16, 2019, 09:37:28 pm »

Quote from: opt2not on May 16, 2019, 07:04:53 pm

Calm down, Jennifer. Gil's a good guy. There is no need for your sass towards him.

At this point it's narrowed-down speculation, till Gil get's a chance to try a few things out.

OMG...Opt2not killed Jennifer...OMG I think the witch is dead!

yotsuya · « **Reply #176 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:03:05 pm »

I think Jennifer would enjoy hanging out with Gil.

Mike A · « **Reply #177 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:16:31 pm »

As long as Gil has an English to Jennifer dictionary.

Nephasth · « **Reply #178 on:** May 16, 2019, 11:45:49 pm »

Quote from: yotsuya on May 16, 2019, 11:03:05 pm

I think Jennifer would enjoy hanging out with Gil.

Gilrock · « **Reply #179 on:** May 17, 2019, 09:45:06 am »

Quote from: jennifer on May 16, 2019, 06:42:57 pm

Quote from: Gilrock on May 16, 2019, 05:15:43 pm
Meh I already messed with convergence rings on my K4600. Its easy I saw a guy do it on YouTube plus I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Those are called purity rings @least you should get the terminology correct before you start blasting g it all over Utube...And the odds are far more likely something else is drifted or failing than the yoke magically moving out of position from the factory.

Figure 6 of the K7000 service manual linked above by Opt2not labels the entire ring area as the "Convergence Magnet Ass'y". The set of rings near the tube are labeled "Purity Centering Magnets", followed by the "4 Pole Convergence Magnets" which align red and blue and then the "6 Pole Convergence Magnets" which aligns green to the other colors. So to make it easier to say when I say "convergence rings" you can take that to mean the 6 pole and 4 pole convergence magnets. I did not touch the "Purity Centering Magnets" on my K4600 so that's why I said "convergence rings".

I'm also not convinced this is the factory tube/yoke. The tube has no hint of burn in and the guys on KLOV said this seller is basically rebuilding the chassis and doing a tube replacement. The ring/yoke assembly and the tube look pristine clean. I can see he added 2 convergence strips under the yoke when he adjusted it. It's possible his adjustments shifted during shipping. The seller if I remember right is chris25810 on KLOV and I looked him up and he has over 7,000 posts there and from what I've seen he appears to know his way around a monitor.

But like I've tried to say 3 times the monitor actually looks good enough that I'm considering leaving it alone.

Now I'll take my engineer hat off for a minute. The guys at ZapCon were all telling me about a picture you posted. They all wanted to see it again. Tell me more about that.

Gilrock · « **Reply #180 on:** May 18, 2019, 08:43:30 pm »

Ok fixed all the monitor issues to my satisfaction. I swapped out the Robotron monitor for the other one I bought from the same seller because it looked a lot nicer. I had put it in my Defender but I'd rather have the best monitor in Robotron. Plus those discolored corners are mostly in insignificant areas for Defender. I also fixed the sync by getting the bright idea to try to horz knob...lol.

And I finally reached my first goal of breaking a million on Robotron!!!

Zeosstud · « **Reply #181 on:** May 18, 2019, 09:36:28 pm »

Congrats on a Million+

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

opt2not · « **Reply #182 on:** May 18, 2019, 09:48:35 pm »

You’re on your way, man! Congrats.

Gilrock · « **Reply #183 on:** May 19, 2019, 01:14:17 am »

Thanks...just played one more before bed and topped that score but only by like 3,000. I'm just not used to being in the waves in the 40's. My score is probably low for points per wave...I'm getting to around wave 47.

opt2not · « **Reply #184 on:** May 19, 2019, 03:10:54 am »

You’re good man. To get up to that wave is what matters. You already said you beat your last score, even by a few thousand. You’ll adapt to the later levels very quickly.
Just try to get that family score multiplier every wave, those big points can help you build up a good cache of lives to help you get through some of the death slumps.
It’s all about that extra life:death ratio.

Mike A · « **Reply #185 on:** May 19, 2019, 09:16:17 am »

Don't die as much. Why didn't I think of that?

Gilrock · « **Reply #186 on:** June 03, 2019, 10:19:57 pm »

Getting there. I now gotta break a million to even post in my top 5. I hit wave 65 on this run and died with 1 brain left and a bullet 1 inch away from hitting it. If I could just figure out how to better avoid the brain shots I could marathon this game.

opt2not · « **Reply #187 on:** June 03, 2019, 11:05:53 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on June 03, 2019, 10:19:57 pm

If I could just figure out how to better avoid the brain shots I could marathon this game.

You gotta do the wiggle “spread shot” on them. They randomly go left and right then diagonal when then chase after you, so while you’re running from them, shoot at them by wiggling the shot stick between the diagonals as quickly as possible to get the spread.

Gilrock · « **Reply #188 on:** June 04, 2019, 08:50:38 am »

Quote from: opt2not on June 03, 2019, 11:05:53 pm

Quote from: Gilrock on June 03, 2019, 10:19:57 pm
If I could just figure out how to better avoid the brain shots I could marathon this game.
You gotta do the wiggle “spread shot” on them. They randomly go left and right then diagonal when then chase after you, so while you’re running from them, shoot at them by wiggling the shot stick between the diagonals as quickly as possible to get the spread.

Thanks. I think the problem is when they are coming at me from 3 directions. I swear I seem to have more of them coming at me than I see when I watch videos of the guys that marathon the game.

Gilrock · « **Reply #189 on:** June 05, 2019, 12:24:14 pm »

I hooked up the 2 switches on the JAMMA harness so I could check the Robotron settings. Kinda disappointed to see I've only been playing on Difficulty 3. I bumped it up to 5 and so far only got to 840,000. I can't figure out exactly what changes between the difficulty levels. It feels harder but it doesn't seem like things move faster. Maybe the timer for when the spheroids spawn enforcers gets shorter? It also feels like the enforcers pump out more shots causing your shots to hit theirs more often.

I also had a guy come by to buy my old mame controller last weekend. Turns out he was one of the service techs at ZapCon and he seemed to know a bit about Robotron machines. He was commenting how nice my joysticks and buttons felt on the one I built and he said I had one of the best looking CRTs he's seen in a long time.

opt2not · « **Reply #190 on:** June 05, 2019, 02:21:13 pm »

Quote from: Gilrock on June 05, 2019, 12:24:14 pm

I hooked up the 2 switches on the JAMMA harness so I could check the Robotron settings. Kinda disappointed to see I've only been playing on Difficulty 3. I bumped it up to 5 and so far only got to 840,000. I can't figure out exactly what changes between the difficulty levels. It feels harder but it doesn't seem like things move faster. Maybe the timer for when the spheroids spawn enforcers gets shorter? It also feels like the enforcers pump out more shots causing your shots to hit theirs more often.

I also had a guy come by to buy my old mame controller last weekend. Turns out he was one of the service techs at ZapCon and he seemed to know a bit about Robotron machines. He was commenting how nice my joysticks and buttons felt on the one I built and he said I had one of the best looking CRTs he's seen in a long time.

The Grunts will take their steps faster, their rhythm increases with the difficulty increase. Yeah, the Enforcers get spawned quicker and they are more aggressive with shooting.

Don't be discouraged, you'll adjust to the higher difficulty. It'll just train you to be more aggressive and really control the floor of enemies more. Prioritize those spheroids!

Gilrock · « **Reply #191 on:** June 05, 2019, 10:45:53 pm »

Just played a bunch of games where I couldn't break 750K on difficulty 5 and then all of sudden hit a 1.5 mil game. I could have punched the screen when again I died with 1 brain on wave 55 with only 25 more points to another man.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #192 on:** August 05, 2019, 12:21:14 pm »

What size are the holes that the Joysticks come up through? I am hoping to install my control panel overlay onto my newly built control panel and normally drill 1.5" holes for joysticks, but that is when the dust washer is on the outside. Just wondering what size you used when properly having the washers under the Control Panel Overlay. I have a set of the Dominux8 sticks I will be using, and they are made so that you can have the washer under the wood, may or may not need some washers, will see, just wondering what size holes to drill and am praying to the CPO gods that when I drill into the control panel, with the cpo already installed, the cut is clean and there is no tear out. Alternately I may just dry fit the cpo and then drill the holes, apply the cpo and use an razor blade or exacto knife to cut away the excess.

Thanks,

Zeosstud

Gilrock · « **Reply #193 on:** August 05, 2019, 02:45:23 pm »

I'll have to look at my design when I'm at home. If you got the control panel overlay I thought the holes they cut out were the same size as what you need to cutout.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #194 on:** August 05, 2019, 05:10:32 pm »

From what I can find online, the Robotron joystick hole is 1 3/8".. also read that the Dominux8 can be used in a 1 1/8" hole if perfectly centered but 1 1/4" hole is recommended.. Gotta decide on a plan here very shortly..

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Zeosstud · « **Reply #195 on:** August 05, 2019, 06:59:47 pm »

Got my control panel drilled out, good clean cuts, happy and very relieved.. Decided to go with 1 3/8" holes, hopefully that works out.. if the Dominux8 could work in 1 1/8, and is suggested to work in 1 1/4, then surely the original hole size for Robotron of 1 3/8" will be a piece of cake to allow the joysticks to work as designed!!

In case anyone cares..

I applied the control panel overlay, then took a hole punch and marked the center of where I want to drill, put the tip of the forstner bit in the indentation, got the drill up to full speed and went straight down with some pressure, not letting up until it was clearly thru the overlay material and into the wood. Same thing for the holes for buttons and joysticks.

got good clean cuts, hope everyone has the exact same results!!

Gilrock · « **Reply #196 on:** August 05, 2019, 08:23:01 pm »

Yep my hole is 1 3/8". Your panel doesn't appear to have any slope to the top surface. Instead of it being 90 deg from the front surface more like 76 deg would give the tilt towards you like the original.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #197 on:** August 06, 2019, 12:39:08 am »

Yeah, mine is a bit off angle wise, but it will be okay for now, built it with what I had available, pretty happy.

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opt2not · « **Reply #198 on:** August 06, 2019, 12:53:26 am »

Hey I thought this was Gilrock’s project thread.

Zeosstud · « **Reply #199 on:** August 06, 2019, 01:50:38 am »

It most certainly is.. He just gave me some good advise and answered some questions, as he normally does.. I simply got a little to excited, my bad, will attempt to keep things a little more tidy going forward. Besides, this thread had slipped to page 2, can't have that for one of the best scratch built Robotron cabinets ever!!

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